Jim Carr: Welcome to MakingChips, we believe that manufacturing is challenging, but if you are connected to a community of leaders, you could elevate your skills, solve your problems and grow your business.
Jim Carr: I'm your host Jim Carr, and I am joined in my residential studio with my good friend and my co host, Jason Zenger.
Jason Zenger: Hey Jim, how are you?
Jim Carr: I'm good how are-
Jason Zenger: Yeah we're in your home studio, you actually have a real studio in your house.
Jim Carr: I know! We used to record here all the time, at the infancy of MakingChips, when we were just novices and we didn't know anything about what a podcast was and we didn't know that it was going to bring us all this amazing success and celebrity, right?
Jason Zenger: And you can take that celebrity. That's fine, and speaking of beginnings, guess what I did?
Jim Carr: What did you do, Jason?
Jason Zenger: I deleted my Facebook account, so talk about the beginnings of social media, I said enough of Facebook.
Jim Carr: Well, because you couldn't handle it, right?
Jason Zenger: No it provided no value. There was nothing there. I would log in every once in a while, I'd have 75 alerts and it was a waste of time-
Jim Carr: That's a little dramatic, 75 alerts.
Jason Zenger: No I mean I'm serious, I didn't go in there all the time. I'm not like you-
Jim Carr: Okay.
Jason Zenger: Where I went in like five times a day, saying who likes me today?
Jim Carr: I really don't care who likes me or don't, I'm beyond that, but-
Jason Zenger: I'm just over it!
Jim Carr: It was a time suck for
Jason Zenger: It was a time suck, even when I got on to it, it just seemed like it was a bit of a distraction, and I was just kind of done with it.
Jim Carr: Well, is social media a distraction?
Jason Zenger: Well, I think it can be, and I think that if you're on the right platforms it can be effective, and that's one of the things that I want to learn about today. We've got a guest where we're going to talk about the business social media platform LinkedIn.
Jim Carr: I love LinkedIn its probably one of my favorite social media platform that I use for my business, for my professional side, and if people just realize that there are social media platforms for personal, which is really Facebook, and LinkedIn is the complete opposite of that, is it for your professional side.
Jim Carr: Once people realize what the platforms are there for, I think they'll do a much better job about how to use it and articulate it.
Jason Zenger: And right now I'm actually reading a book called "Digital Minimalism." So,-
Jim Carr: Digital Minimalism.
Jason Zenger: By Cal Newport, its kind of a hot book right now, I think it;s actually a #1 seller and it just came out literally just in the past, in this month. I want to learn how to really extract myself from being so digitally obsessed, but at the same time, I want to utilize the platforms like LinkedIn that could be beneficial to my career and my business so that's what were going to learn about today, but do you have anything great going on at Carr Machine & Tool?
Jim Carr: Yes, you're going to love this!
Jason Zenger: Okay.
Jim Carr: So I met with an integrator of EOS-
Jason Zenger: No you did not.
Jim Carr: I met with an implementer-
Jason Zenger: There you go.
Jim Carr: Yes, thank you.
Jason Zenger: Metalworking nation, I'm always correcting Jim Carr.
Jim Carr: I know-
Jason Zenger: I got to keep him, you know.
Jim Carr: You got to have a dictionary up in front of me before me to do that. Yes, I met with an implementer-
Jason Zenger: One of our good friends Clark [Noyhoff- 00:03:09]
Jim Carr: Yes.
Jason Zenger: And he happens to be my implementer also-
Jim Carr: He is, he's a great guy I've known him for many, many years and I've been exposed to the EOS process, the systematic process of running your business off of it.
Jason Zenger: Yeah we had a whole episode about that.
Jim Carr: Many. We've had many, we've talked about-
Jason Zenger: I've gotten a lot of emails about it, and I appreciate the emails coming in with people saying, "Yeah, I just got the book and I read it. I think this is awesome and I have this question." I've been trying to answer people's questions as much as I can, but, yeah. It's great.
Jim Carr: Alright. So I have a distinct and legitimate leadership team now at Carr Machine & Tool. So, we met with Clark and talked to him. Our followup meeting with my leadership team at Carr is we're all- are you sitting down?
Jason Zenger: Mm-hmm.
Jim Carr: We're all going to read the book, Traction, and we're going to give back.
Jason Zenger: No, you won't.
Jim Carr: Yes I will! I have to. I have to be accountable to my team. We're going to all do a chapter-
Jason Zenger: I think you're going to cheat. I think you're going to cheat on the reading.
Jim Carr: And then we're going to talk. Every week, we're going to do one chapter. We're going to talk that week. We're going to do another chapter and talk the next week.
Jason Zenger: You're going to cut it back to one page. Guys, we're going to read one page this week, and then we're going to talk about it.
Jim Carr: So, I look forward to sharing with you my reading venture.
Jason Zenger: And I look forward to hearing about your journey.
Jim Carr: Thank you.
Jason Zenger: So, you want to ask me what I have going on?
Jim Carr: No, I don't. I really don't care, quite frankly. No, seriously. What's going on at Zenger's?
Jason Zenger: So, the month of January was cold in Chicago.
Jim Carr: No kidding.
Jason Zenger: I mean, we're talking, there's a couple of days where my kids were- canceled school. It was, supposedly, felt like 50 degrees below 0.
Jason Zenger: For friends of ours in the metal working nation, who are in California and Texas, places like that, I know you can't even comprehend that, but it felt like 50 degrees below 0.
Jim Carr: It was awful.
Jason Zenger: It was ridiculous.
Jim Carr: It was awful.
Jason Zenger: But, at my wife's company, Black Industrial Supply, they actually sell a lot of cold weather supplies; shovels and salts, and even safety supplies to be used outside to keep you warm, to keep you not falling on the ice.
Jason Zenger: They had a record sells month in January-
Jim Carr: That's awesome.
Jason Zenger: Since we've owned the company. I'm very excited about that.
Jim Carr: You think it's strictly due to the extreme weather?
Jason Zenger: No, there was just some other things going on. I guess, my point is, we thought it was going to be because what we thought of, loss of days sales.
Jason Zenger: In your case, if your people didn't make it in, loss of getting parts out the door. We just thought it was going to be kind of a bummer of a month, and it ended up being one of the best month's ever.
Jim Carr: That's awesome. So, we need to take it over to manufacturing. Now, we have our good friends-
Jason Zenger: Well, actually, this is kind of part of our new segment and new structure. We're going to kick it over to Nick Goellner. He's going to tell us about what's new at MakingChips and manufacturing news.
Jim Carr: Yeah. Welcome, Nick.
Nick Goellner: Hey, thanks guys. So, I actually hope that we touch on cyber bullying because Jason has been making fun of my raspy voice. He's been talking about the weather. The weather affected me really bad; he's pretty much making it really tough for me to be this third wheel here.
Jason Zenger: He is. It is hard to be a third wheel.
Nick Goellner: He needs to shed some light on that.
Jason Zenger: He's really not nice sometimes.
Nick Goellner: But you do have a sweet beard. I know I tell you that all the time.
Jim Carr: Thanks.
Nick Goellner: Here's the other thing. We are doing much more than podcasting. I think we've talked about that on a few previous episodes.
Jim Carr: Tell us, Nick. What are we doing?
Nick Goellner: Well, we mentioned manufacturing news, but now we've actually published that on our site, and we give our perspective on it. The other thing we do is, we publish original piece every week. Written by one of us.
Nick Goellner: The other thing that we do is the Chip In contributor program. We're allowing our guests to publish their insights to equip and give insight to manufacturing leaders on MakingChips.
Nick Goellner: Our guest today is actually one of the Chip In contributors. He's going to write a post on how we shouldn't think of LinkedIn as a social media platform, we should think of it as the largest business database of manufacturing leaders that you've ever seen.
Jason Zenger: Well, that's great. I don't want to be on social media, so I could still be on LinkedIn and say I'm not on social media, I guess.
Nick Goellner: It's all about perspective. The other piece that I'm actually going to write, is, "5 Lessons that I've Learned in 5 Years" about social media. I think it was about 5 years ago that I really started getting involved, using social media for my business.
Nick Goellner: My perspective has completely changed over those 5 years.
Jason Zenger: And you're a young millennial, Nick. So, you've lived the digital age, more so than Jim and I. I was on the cusp of it, and Jim really, is at the tail end of it.
Jim Carr: Well, I think I'm using it more than anybody in my demographic. I don't know Wayne is, but-
Jason Zenger: I would say so.
Jim Carr: Definitely, I'm using it a lot more than-
Nick Goellner: A typical, manufacturing boomer.
Jason Zenger: I think I'm kind of the opposite.
Jim Carr: Really?
Jason Zenger: My generation's known for being totally connected and always on social media. I'm one of those people, ashamed to admit it, as a marketing professional, but I'm not as active on social as I should be.
Nick Goellner: It's interesting that you brought up that book, was it Digital Minimalism? Because, I actually just book marked that yesterday.
Jason Zenger: I know it's important, I know it's a huge part of how we get the content out there, but I don't want to be on social media all the time.
Jim Carr: Yeah, well, what Digital Minimalism is about is, it's about prioritizing the most important things in your personal life.
Nick Goellner: So, this is going to be a great episode today. Before we get into that, let's talk about the manufacturing news.
Jim Carr: What do you got first on the manufacturing news, Nick?
Nick Goellner: So, today's article comes from LinkedIn business. It's titled, "These Industries Will Face the Biggest Talent Shortages by 2030."
Jim Carr: I bet manufacturing isn't mentioned in there.
Nick Goellner: Yep. Manufacturing is the third point in the article.
Jim Carr: Of course.
Nick Goellner: We're not going to focus on any of the other industries, but I'll just give you the gist.
Nick Goellner: "7.9 million people, we'll be short 7.9 million people by 2030. Right now, we're short about 2 million workers by 2020, which is next year. The resulting loss in revenue may be as high as 607.1 billion."
Nick Goellner: They attributed to talent shortages among the millennials and Generation Z. "Companies may also want to focus on up scaling these young employees through apprenticeships and workforce training programs."
Nick Goellner: Something that we cover a lot on MakingChips.
Jim Carr: So, what was that first stat that you read off, Nick, about in 2030?
Nick Goellner: Yeah, by 2030, they're expecting a 7.9 million people deficit in the manufacturing industry.
Jim Carr: I hate when I hear that 10 year vision. Actually, that's an 11 year vision, but it seems so lofty to predict what's going to happen. I mean, business is changing so quickly. I don't know how they could even predict something like that, 11 years out.
Jim Carr: The way things, the way technology is changing, the way we do business, I don't even know how they can think about what's going to happen in 2030 right now. Let's just talk about what's going to happen in the next 24 to 36 months.
Nick Goellner: Well, and if we do what we're hoping to do, we're going to change that trend. People like Titan Gilroy, people like MakingChips, we're hoping to change that trend so that we're telling a different story by the time 2030 comes around.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, and we are equipping and inspiring the next generation to get involved in an industry like manufacturing, that is cutting edge and it's clean, and it's exciting and it's fun. It really uses your creative and your math skills, and all the kind of stuff that somebody would want in a career.
Jim Carr: It's still kind of bugs me that people don't yet understand our business, and can't relate and really don't know. They're still thinking old school.
Jim Carr: When is the shift going to happen? We've been talking about this now for 5, 6, 10, years.
Jason Zenger: Well, instead of being bugged,
Jim Carr: We're doing our part to create a paradigm shift among manufacturing leaders. We all know that manufacturing is awesome. We know it's clean, but when are we going to extract all this bad karma around the industry?
Jim Carr: It's not my grandfather's machine shop anymore. Come on.
Jason Zenger: Well, I don't believe in karma, but what I do believe in, is that you can do something about it in order to create awareness. All of us here at MakingChips, we're trying to do those things in order to create awareness about the industry, what it's all about.
Jason Zenger: I think there's a lot of our other peers that are doing that some thing. You mentioned Titan Gilroy, he was also on a panel discussion with Tony Neary, who's also trying to do that same thing.
Jason Zenger: I think it's starting to gain steam, but we need the younger generation out there. Who's our new friend from Manufacturing Solutions? He's starting to do that same thing too, talking about his startup career.
Nick Goellner: Yeah, we're really excited about Brandon Kane. He's just got a great story. It sounds very similar.
Jason Zenger: Nice, young kid- I mean, I shouldn't call him a kid. He owns his own machining business now.
Nick Goellner: He's a manufacturing leader, even though he's only 23.
Jason Zenger: We do have these people in this industry that are trying to change the industry, trying to change the awareness. Jim, you need to try to be there to try to equip those people in order to build more awareness of manufacturing.
Jim Carr: Yeah, I'm there man, I'm there.
Nick Goellner: Yeah, so just to kind of put a bow on it before we move into the episode, you can find the-
Jim Carr: What color bow are we going to put on it?
Jason Zenger: I think it's going to be like blue-ish green, like MakingChips.
Nick Goellner: Turquoise.
Jim Carr: There you go. Love it. MakingChips Turquoise.
Nick Goellner: Turquoise, that's the word.
Nick Goellner: Just to let everyone know how they can get the Chip In contribution, how they can get the original article, where they can find the latest manufacturing news, go ahead and subscribe to makingchips.com.
Jason Zenger: Great. Thank you, Nick.
Jason Zenger: Well, why don't we go onto the episode, which we're going to talk about how to have LinkedIn success without becoming social media obsessed.
Jason Zenger: This really hits home with me because, as I mentioned before, I'm not somebody's who's interested in being in the spotlight all the time. I really like to kick back and be more introverted, but at the same time, I also feel like there's a place for LinkedIn.
Jason Zenger: I mostly feel like, if I'm no LinkedIn, I don't exist as a business owner and as a business leader. I'm going to learn something new today here. I'm excited to introduce our guest, who is Wayne [Breitbarth 00:12:25].
Jason Zenger: He's the owner of Power Formula, he is a LinkedIn trainer, speaker, and consultant. He's the author of Power Formula for LinkedIn Success, which I have in front of me, right now.
Jason Zenger: He's a LinkedIn expert and he is going to teach me and the metalworking nation how to really be successful in LinkedIn without being obsessed with it.
Jason Zenger: So, Wayne, welcome to MakingChips.
Wayne B.: Thanks, Jason. It's great to be on.
Jason Zenger: Yes it is. Lucky to have you.
Wayne B.: I'm looking forward to our time together.
Jim Carr: Yes.
Jim Carr: Welcome, Wayne.
Wayne B.: Thanks.
Jim Carr: Yes, I look forward too. I've got a lot of questions for you.
Jason Zenger: So, Wayne, when I go to my LinkedIn profile, a couple of years ago, I did spend some time trying to get my LinkedIn profile to look go. When I go onto LinkedIn, it says I'm an All-star.
Jason Zenger: I appreciate the pat on the back from LinkedIn, but really, I don't feel. I've got 2 to 3,000 connections, but I actually don't feel like an All-star. I feel like I don't put a lot of time into LinkedIn.
Jason Zenger: Let's start with the Why. Why in general should I care about LinkedIn?
Wayne B.: Because it's the largest database of business professionals we've ever had. That's the paradigm shift that should be different in people's minds about LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: That, instead of a social media site, which has the connotations, sort of like you said, and I'm ready to cut out Facebook, too. I'm sort of with you on that. This is different. It's different because the database of all of these resumes on steroids profiles and the fact that we can find people because the keywords and where they went to school, and what degrees, and what software they run.
Wayne B.: That kind of data that we can grab the people that we need for free. I mean, hello? So that's the thing is, the All-star thing is a joke, okay?
Jason Zenger: Are you calling me a joke, Wayne?
Wayne B.: No.
Jason Zenger: Okay.
Wayne B.: The All-star, the fact that LinkedIn calls people All-stars, that means you've done about 4 or 5 out of probably the 100 things that Wayne Breitbarth would use to call you an All-star.
Jason Zenger: Well, I guess 4 out of 5 is not bad.
Wayne B.: Not bad, it's a good start, but the bottom line is, most people struggle with LinkedIn because they haven't defined what it is. They think this beautiful database can do for their business.
Jason Zenger: So, what are the top things that LinkedIn, as a database, can do for you?
Jason Zenger: So if you look at LinkedIn, it could be a couple of things. It could be a way for you to stay connected to a community. It could be a place for you to post your résumé. It could be a place for you to send emails to potential clients.
Jason Zenger: What else is LinkedIn all about? What has to be the 'why' behind why people want to be on LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: Yeah, so I like to think of it a little more strategic than the things you just mentioned, right?
Jason Zenger: Great.
Wayne B.: I like to step up to, "Who do you need to meet more of?"
Wayne B.: 'Kay? So, that could be customers, that could be vendors and suppliers, that could be employees, that could be influencers of your customers, right?
Wayne B.: It's a people database. What people are you short? Like you talked earlier in this episode about the shortage of workers.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, so Wayne, to be quite honest, I'm short. I need to hire people. I need to connect with more clients. I need to connect with the metalworking nation, and I need to connect with my suppliers.
Jason Zenger: I actually fill all of those buckets that you talked about. I need all of them.
Wayne B.: So now, in order to turn it into something where you go, "You know what? This is worth the time." You got to take that knowledge of "These are my strategies, these are what I need more of," and then set in a couple of procedures and pieces of the LinkedIn features that work for you, and do them routinely.
Jason Zenger: My immediate need right now is, I have several open positions that I need to hire for. One of the fears I have is, I can go the traditional routes of trying to find somebody, but I feel like, even if I'm an "All-star," and I do get some engagement, I feel like I'm kind of throwing words out into the air and I'm not getting a whole lot of engagements.
Jason Zenger: How do I, if my "why" behind why I'm on LinkedIn is to engage with more potential people that could be on my team, how do I make sure that what I'm doing is worthwhile, that it's a good use of my time that I'm really engaging with those people that I want to engage with?
Wayne B.: So, it sounds like what you're attempting to do is post that you have an opening.
Jason Zenger: Right.
Wayne B.: Right, okay. That's a technique. I'd call that Technique #5 out of 5 probably in effectiveness. I think the most effective thing you can do for finding employees is search for those employees.
Jason Zenger: Okay. Individually.
Wayne B.: Individually, or-
Jason Zenger: Or by title.
Wayne B.: That's right. It's by category,
Jason Zenger: Title.
Wayne B.: it's really the persona. What's the persona? You use that in marketing terms?
Jason Zenger: Yes, they do.
Wayne B.: What words are defined on their profile that you can search for?
Jason Zenger: Can you give us some ideas of what those look like?
Wayne B.: Yeah, so it could be things like, 'software.' It could be things like, 'CNC machines,' right?
Wayne B.: Now, blue collar workers, I would say are slowly coming to the LinkedIn game.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, what if I'm looking for an entry level worker?
Jim Carr: They are. They're there.
Wayne B.: So, they're slowly coming to the LinkedIn game. A month ago, I did a class up at MATC in Milwaukee. For the welders, they were going to graduate soon. The welding professor said, "Hey, we need you because I think this is important."
Jason Zenger: That's cool.
Wayne B.: Here were these guys, a couple of gals in the room, actually. I showed them how to set up a profile with keywords like, 'CNC,' because that's what you're going to use to find them.
Jason Zenger: What if I just need to find somebody to work in my warehouse?
Wayne B.: So, what I think about when you get to, let's call it 'starting position,' right?
Jason Zenger: An entry level position, sure.
Wayne B.: Think about this. Who works for organizations that they're not going to be appreciated and don't have the career path, and they're probably really good.
Wayne B.: Go to a restaurant. Think about a restaurant. I had a friend of mine at a car dealership who's looking for people that were service advisors, and I said, "Why don't you go after people that work at Best Buy? Enterprise Rent a Car?" Because those are great people who have been trained well, but the career might be a little bit short.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, you're starting to make a paradigm shift in my mind as to how I can utilize this database. I never even thought about it from that perspective.
Jason Zenger: I appreciate that.
Nick Goellner: What about for something really niche-y? For example, we're facing this problem right now at Advance Machine. We are trying to find a business development leader for a niche machine tool that we make; it's a carbide saw system.
Wayne B.: So, you know what I'd do with that one? Think about your competitors. The first 3 people-
Jason Zenger: Start searching for their company names.
Wayne B.: The first 3 people I hired when I was in the office furniture business, were where I want directly at people that worked at my competitors.
Wayne B.: Now, in the old days, we would say, "Well, you can't do that. That's not how business is run because we got this business oath that we're not going to do whatever," right?
Wayne B.: Hey. Recruiters do it every day of the week. We pay them to do it, right? So, why do we need to pay them to do it when now, we have the database that the recruiters are using, and you can search by those companies and go, "Oh my gosh, it's like I walked up to the organization and went up to the receptionist and said, 'Hi, I'm Wayne Breitbarth.'"
Wayne B.: And "Oh, who are you here to see?"
Wayne B.: "I'm just here to walk around this department and just meet your folks."
Wayne B.: "You work for our competitor. Are you nuts?"
Wayne B.: "No, I'm not nuts, I'm just going to do it virtually if it's okay with you."
Wayne B.: That's basically what you're doing.
Jason Zenger: That's great. I love that description. You're putting some of these visuals in my head that I'm really enjoying. So, I'm getting it. How much time do I need to spend in order to make this experience the most effective that I can?
Wayne B.: So, it depends what your burning issues are. If your burning issues are you're looking for people, you may have to spend an hour a week doing your searches. Some of that hour will be spent not just searching, but once that beautiful list comes up, guess what LinkedIn shows you?
Wayne B.: Probably find some friends that know these folks because of the industry you're in, right? People know people. That's when you reach out to your friend and say, "Hey, I see you know Jason."
Wayne B.: "Oh, I do. What's up?"
Wayne B.: "well, we got an opening. I think he'd be perfect for it."
Wayne B.: "How are you feeling about his job these days?"
Wayne B.: "Geez, you're his friend. I don't know."
Jason Zenger: That's great, I like that.
Wayne B.: Spend a little time with your friend, right? And you're friend will go, "You're wasting your time. He just loves it there." Or say, "He's always complaining." You reach out to them.
Jason Zenger: What you just described, that's one of the best places that we've found to recruit people for our team in a more personal standpoint so there's no reason why you can't mine that data digitally ahead of time.
Jason Zenger: So, I love that.
Wayne B.: To me, that's essence of LinkedIn. It's not just the database itself, but showing those relationships. 'Cause isn't that what life's always been about? Is if you knew who-
Jason Zenger: It's all about relationships.
Wayne B.: Yeah. If you knew who your friends knew, before LinkedIn, we didn't. If you knew who your friends knew, you'd say, "This is an unbelievable tool." That was my 'aha' moment.
Wayne B.: When I went from "I'm not doing it, it's stupid," to "this is a powerful business tool." Is when I said, "Oh my goodness. I can see who my friends know." Could never do that before. I have a lot of friends. I'm 61 years old; I got a lot of friends, right?
Wayne B.: I got a lot of friends that can lead me to more friends. Before LinkedIn, I could have played golf with a guy a week of Sundays, and said, "I can't believe you didn't tell me you know this guy."
Wayne B.: "Well, I don't know who you need to know, Wayne."
Jim Carr: Yeah.
Jason Zenger: One of the things that I've run into, Wayne, is I've got 2 to 3,000 connections. I'm sure you got thousands. I know Jim's got thousands. Nick's got, I think, like 100 or 200 connections.
Nick Goellner: This is the cyber bullying, I was talking about it. I have way more than 100, Jason.
Jason Zenger: I don't know those 2 to 3,000 people, to be totally honest. I know Jim doesn't know all the people that he's connected with.
Jason Zenger: How do you balance that because, if somebody comes to me, and it's happened before, they'll say, "Do you know so and so?"
Jason Zenger: I'm like, "I really don't."
Wayne B.: So you don't have to balance it, Jason. You handle it just like you're saying now. I mean, I think about what you guys' business is, you've got your businesses, then you need to know people really well to do whatever.
Wayne B.: Then, you got this thing, MakingChips, right? Were you trying to draw a great big audience? It's infectious, right?
Jason Zenger: We love hearing from the audience. I really do.
Wayne B.: The point is, your LinkedIn profile is a little bit like how mine used to be when I was in office furniture, and I was doing LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: The LinkedIn part was broad, because I could sell a book to everybody, right? But the office furniture thing was tighter.
Jason Zenger: Niche.
Wayne B.: Well, you've got the networking, can serve you for both reasons, right? Don't think that you can't. It's different strategies underneath, both those things. Don't worry about having 2,000, but the 2,000 will pay off great when you're trying to post the latest podcast episode, and hoping to his as many people as you can with the crazy LinkedIn algorithm for posting these days not being in your favor, but bigger is better.
Jason Zenger: Right.
Wayne B.: But when you're targeting that employee we were just talking about, up comes the list. Well, once in a while, you're going to call your friend, and they're going to go, "Jason who?"
Wayne B.: That's okay.
Jason Zenger: Nobody's said, "Jason Zenger who?"
Wayne B.: The point is, just be ready to tell your friends, "Listen. I got a big network. Some of the people I know like my best friends, some of the people I'll have to tell you, they might have seen me speak and they connected with me, and they're manufacturing. I'm going to connect with them."
Wayne B.: It won't disappoint your friends that often. It's like, "I understand. You got two types of networks. It's okay."
Jim Carr: Okay, I've been a little bit quiet because I was just trying to craft some great ideas. I've been writing-
Jason Zenger: It's so nice, Jim.
Jim Carr: Yeah, I know you'll appreciate that, Jason; but Wayne, first of all, again, thanks for coming. There's so many things I want to ask you and I've been writing quite a bit down while you've been engaging with Jason and Nick.
Jim Carr: First of all, I use LinkedIn to create brand awareness around A. My manufacturing company and B. Around my manufacturing podcast.
Jim Carr: Think I've learned the secret sauce about doing that, but since this is a very basic conversation we're having. Let's start with, is more more in social media?
Jim Carr: Is it better to have 10,000 LinkedIn connections that you don't know 75% of those people, or is it more important to have 2,500 and know 90% of those people?
Jason Zenger: I think even along those same lines, Jim, is it better to post every day or is it better to just post once a week?
Jim Carr: I think it's another question.
Jason Zenger: It is another question.
Jim Carr: I think it's another question.
Jason Zenger: But, it goes to that, more more.
Jim Carr: I'm just talking about connection, is more connections more?
Wayne B.: In general, the search algorithm loves more, okay?
Jason Zenger: Right. Loves more connections, it loves more posts.
Jason Zenger: We're talking connections.
Wayne B.: Well, let's keep posts to the side for a second. Post is an ad situation, where people think they're going to get these great results, and we'll talk about that.
Jason Zenger: Right.
Wayne B.: But, when it comes to the network itself, the search algorithm, at least the way it's configured today, of course it can change." But in general, over the years, it's been 'more is better.'
Wayne B.: Now, more is really better when the more is the people in the space you want to occupy.
Jim Carr: So, in manufacturing, if I'm connected to a plethora of manufacturers, that would be better for me.
Wayne B.: No question.
Jim Carr: Okay, good; because, that makes me, my brand awareness, as the thought leader in the industry more viable. Right?
Wayne B.: Bingo.
Jim Carr: Okay, got it. That's what I thought, and I wanted confirmation on that. So, that's what I've been using my LinkedIn profile for. There's a couple questions I have about having a business profile and a personal profile.
Jim Carr: We know with personal profiles, it's all about being connected. You have to send a LinkedIn request to be connected, or somebody has to send a LinkedIn connection to be requested from you. That's one aspect of being connected.
Jim Carr: Then, we have our business profile pages on LinkedIn, which is Carr Machine & Tool, which is MakingChips. Those are just followers of those particular LinkedIn pages. Is that correct?
Wayne B.: That's correct.
Jim Carr: Okay. Is there any strategy to utilize tagging of the business pages in my personal profile? Like, when I talk about MakingChips, my LinkedIn connections are 5,000 people. So, I've got a huge network of manufacturing people that I'm connected to on LinkedIn, but I want to bring them in to MakingChips podcast, which is manufacturing centric.
Jim Carr: When I post, I always post on Jim Carr, and I always say, "Well, last week, Jason-" I tag Jason, "and I recorded this episode about #manufacturing leaders on MakingChips." And I tagged page.
Jim Carr: So, what is the strategy behind doing that? What am I actually getting? What is the [ROY 00:26:22] on that?
Wayne B.: If you're going to spend the time posting your own content, or sharing and liking other people's content, the best practice is to do what you're doing. Using the tags, using the hashtags.
Wayne B.: Here's why we have to use the hashtags. The tags bring other people into the post, don't they?
Jim Carr: They absolutely do.
Wayne B.: Here's the key. What Jason should do when you tag him is, he has to come in, he has to like your post, make a comment, and maybe even tag you back with "You're welcome, Jim."
Jim Carr: Yep, I totally agree.
Jason Zenger: Which, I typically do that.
Wayne B.: Right. Make sure Jim is the tag. Think about that. If you just read it and go, "That's nice."
Jim Carr: You look cute.
Wayne B.: Yeah, but if you go in there and like, that's interaction, a comment is an interaction. A tag is interaction, and maybe even you swoop back, Jim, and say, "Oh, you're welcome. I really enjoyed this episode."
Wayne B.: Boom, boom, boom. All of a sudden, it's keeping track. See, what happens with the posting is this: LinkedIn is shared with us how the algorithm works. Nobody likes the answer to what they shared.
Wayne B.: It's this: When you share, it's a tranche, a small tranche of your 2 or 3,000, receive that in their feed. It tests that tranche, and says, "Is anybody interested in this thing?" If it does nothing, guess what?
Jason Zenger: It falls off.
Wayne B.: The rest of your network will never see it.
Wayne B.: If it gets some activity, like we're talking about right here, another tranche will get it tomorrow, and it's tracking both tranches, "Oh boy, people got involved in even the second tranche."
Wayne B.: Now, guess what? 3 weeks later, the final group of your network finally might see that post, and they'll make comments. You'll go, "3 weeks, where have you been, dude?"
Wayne B.: Well, he just got it. He got it because the testing, but at least it made it to your whole network.
Jason Zenger: Yep, exactly.
Wayne B.: The real key on content sharing on LinkedIn is, you need activity. You got to instigate the activity on the post. You know what's an even better technique?
Jim Carr: What's that?
Wayne B.: Better technique is for you to take, let's say a podcast episode, and you've got 15 or 20 targets of people you'd like to talk to. They're in your network, you've maybe met them at an event or whatever, but you haven't really had that meaningful conversation.
Wayne B.: Why not direct message a podcast episode right in their inbox and say, "I thought of you the other day as we finished up the podcast. Here's a link to review it. We covered these following things. If you ever want to sit down and have that chat that we never got around having since we connected 2 years ago, let's do it."
Jason Zenger: That's a great idea.
Wayne B.: That went in their inbox.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Most people out there don't have a podcast, though, but even if it's a post, they're just writing about a subject matter that they're familiar with, and they can add value to. There is something to be said about sending that direct message with that post.
Wayne B.: Let's face it. It goes in their inbox, they do have to do something. In the feed-
Jason Zenger: They're getting a notification.
Wayne B.: They get a notification.
Jason Zenger: It's going to stay green.
Jim Carr: And everyone's always curious about what that notification is.
Wayne B.: Think about this. It's like an InMail, for people that don't know this, this is a beginner conversation, InMail is when you can send a message to somebody you're not connected to, but you have to pay for those.
Jason Zenger: Right.
Wayne B.: But, this is free, because you're already connected to the person. We don't get many messages on LinkedIn, really. Our emails busier than whatever. We get notified by our email that we got a message over on LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: It goes into 2 inboxes, one that's not very busy, and that person's probably going to clear out that inbox on LinkedIn, because they're like, "Well, I don't have anything. I'm keeping that one clean. Over here, I got a big mess on my hands."
Wayne B.: The point is this, when you post, it's hit or miss on what you're going to get because, who's going to read the feed and maybe may or may not see it today, right?
Wayne B.: But the direct message is the home run.
Jim Carr: I kind of disagree with that, but maybe you can enlighten me on this, but I want to go back to engagement and how the algorithms work. This is my strategy when I post on LinkedIn.
Jim Carr: Let's say I post at 9 AM on Thursday morning. I start engagement, people start asking questions. Like, I might show that I just got a new piece of equipment at Carr Machine & Tool. People start asking. I purposefully don't show the name to engage conversation with them. I want people to ask me.
Jim Carr: I hold off waiting to answer the question at least 24 to 36 hours later because I want it to refresh itself, because I know every time I answer a question or there's an engagement on my end, it's going to be refreshed and it's going to bring to the top of the newsfeed again, right?
Wayne B.: On the current algorithm, you're making a mistake.
Jim Carr: That's why you're here, Wayne. Thank you for telling me this.
Wayne B.: 'Cause LinkedIn, in that same article, where they talked about these tranches, they talk about velocity. How soon-
Jim Carr: You want to hit the velocity when it's hot.
Wayne B.: How soon do the people engage so that they can start getting some traction scores to decide whether tomorrow another tranche gets it?
Jim Carr: So you're saying, the faster you can answer that question with engagement, the better you are, the more velocity you're going to get because you're going to want to keep ranking high in the feed, right?
Jason Zenger: You want to keep that fire building and not letting it die out.
Nick Goellner: You want the views. It's all about the views.
Wayne B.: And I've never heard that there's this sort of daily refresh that you're talking of. So I'm a
Jim Carr: No, no. What I mean is, when I comment on my own post, it's going to go to the top of my newsfeed that Jim Carr just posted this. Jim Carr just said this, right?
Wayne B.: That's at the top of your newsfeed, but not mine.
Jim Carr: But, if we're connected, it's not going to show up?
Wayne B.: Mine is getting scored by the algorithm.
Jim Carr: Okay.
Wayne B.: Yours, they put it on the top because you just posted it. It's your feed, they're going to let you see what it looks like.
Jim Carr: But it's not showing at the top of all my connections' newsfeed?
Wayne B.: No way.
Jim Carr: I never knew that. See? I never knew that.
Wayne B.: No way. It's because these tranches and the algorithm. Think, what happened? Probably, Jim, where you're confused is, when we first started on LinkedIn-
Jim Carr: Okay.
Wayne B.: Maybe the first 5, 6 years, there was no advertising, there's no sponsored updates, they had nothing to put in the feed.
Jason Zenger: Just grab at anything they can get?
Wayne B.: And they would hit your friends every time. "Hey, this is Jason. How ya doing?" Did you see I just posted today? Read it. "Oh yeah, there it is." Now, they can go, "I don't see it." Well, you're not in the first tranche.
Jason Zenger: So hey, let's talk about another technique, which in my eyes, I don't think it's a great technique. I think it's a little bit of an annoyance, but you can tell me whether it's actually something that is effective, because sometimes the most annoying tactics are sometimes effective.
Jason Zenger: The reason why people send junk mail in the mail, because it actually creates dividends. I've seen a lot of people out there, where they'll create a post and they'll tag 10 people, 20 people, 30 people, sometimes a lot of those people work for their same company, but they're tagging a bunch of people in their posts, trying to get them to engage in whatever the conversation is.
Jim Carr: That is a great question. I had that written down to ask Wayne.
Jason Zenger: Good, and then there's also a second followup to that, which I've also seen where other people where they don't have a lot to say, but they'll jump on to everybody's post and say, "That's great," or "So insightful," or just something that is a little bit vacuous.
Jason Zenger: Are those really effective techniques in order to boost your LinkedIn credibility?
Wayne B.: To increase the exposure of that post, credibility is another question. Maybe you got a crappy profile, right?
Wayne B.: But that post will do much better by that technique. And the second technique is after you list the people you want to engage in, and and don't just-
Jason Zenger: Like listing them right in the post?
Wayne B.: Here's what I'd do. Put up a nice article and then say, "Be sure to share this with your clients who'd be interested on our new machine." At, at, at, at, at. That way-
Jason Zenger: And you put those people right in there.
Jim Carr: I feel offended when people do that to me, though. I really feel offended because I feel like they're just sucking off my connections.
Wayne B.: The point is this, you should have a group of people that you say, "We're doing this." Sometimes no. You're not offended then. You're saying the algorithm works this way and we're going to work together to have this post do better than just post and pray.
Wayne B.: Post and pray does not work.
Jim Carr: I love that. Post and pray.
Wayne B.: Okay? So the technique of using names and tagging with a fluid, "I hope you share this with your clients. They will find it useful." At, at, at, at. And then hit a return on the keyboard and then add some hashtags.
Wayne B.: Hashtags are the second part that are starting to grow on LinkedIn. We're starting to get better with them, but if you don't do either of those things, good luck.
Jason Zenger: So, to speak on that tagging of everyone tactic, there's some pretty popular business in our industry who are kind of known for tagging a lot people.
Jim Carr: A lot.
Jason Zenger: 20, 30 people.
Jim Carr: Yeah, it's quite frankly, I think it's very offensive.
Jason Zenger: It's not my favorite tactic either, but I got some insight this week. Someone that I work with was with them in their area, and he said, "Out of the opportunities that you've gotten this week, how many came from LinkedIn?"
Jason Zenger: 7 out of 10.
Jim Carr: I totally believe that because they're doing something right on the network.
Wayne B.: Think about this. If you make a comment on a post that you've been tagged in, then that person made the comment is going to get notified that somebody else made anther comment on a post that you were commented, tagged on.
Wayne B.: If you look at a post and go, "Oh my goodness. There are 500 people that have made comments on this. It's in the manufacturing space, I got to get my time in this post." And you jump in there, make a comment. There's a good chance that 500 people have been pinged in their inbox that Jim Carr just showed up and said something.
Wayne B.: As long as it's something smart and informational, helpful, you just showed up as an expert.
Jim Carr: As long as it's not vacuous.
Jason Zenger: Let's just change gears here a little bit. If someone from the metalworking nation is completely a beginner and they don't even have a profile at all or they haven't gone on LinkedIn in a year, they say to themselves, "I need to get involved in LinkedIn. I need to do all those things and get engaged in the manner that you talked about and use LinkedIn as that database that is has been created for."
Jason Zenger: How should they get started? What are the basics? Tell me the How to Guide somebody like that.
Wayne B.: So, let's make sure the things we've discussed so far.
Wayne B.: Our fairly advanced techniques and when we use these techniques with people who are not overly educated on LinkedIn, their eyes start to roll in the back of their heads and they go, "Oh God, please," right? "I'm lost." I don't want people to be blown away and think that the only way you're going to get results is to understand all these fairly advanced techniques.
Wayne B.: Let's go back to what's the basis of LinkedIn and how you get started.
Wayne B.: It starts with a really good profile. Now, what does that meN?
Jim Carr: What does that mean?
Wayne B.: The overarching strategy in your profile starts with this: who are you writing the profile for?
Jason Zenger: Right, so for me, one of the things that I see is one of the most important things in your profile is your title. I think you call it like the "10 second bumper sticker."
Jason Zenger: I write it for the metalworking nation, for people that are listening to MakingChips, and also for people that are potential clients of Zenger's. Mine says, "Strengthening manufacturing, makingchips.com, MRO and metalworking products, vending and integration."
Jason Zenger: It kind of talks a couple of bullet points about the things that we do for the manufacturing industry because I have MakingChips and then I also have Zenger's Industrial, where we sell cutting tools and tooling, and stuff like that.
Jason Zenger: Is that a good title or is there some ways I can make improvements on?
Wayne B.: So, let's make sure the audience understands. That's your headline, not your title.
Jason Zenger: Okay, thank you.
Wayne B.: The headline is a critical spot. I like your headline.
Jason Zenger: Okay.
Wayne B.: I think your headline clearly says those are the things you're involved in. It's perfect. I think headlines should be- think about it. It's called a headline.
Jim Carr: It's called a headline, like a newspaper headline.
Wayne B.: A headline's meant to be a short thing of "This is what I do, if you like this, keep reading." Okay? I think yours does that. Headlines are critically important. Most people make the mistake of keeping the default headline that LinkedIn shoves up there, which is like your title.
Jason Zenger: Which is like "Vice President of" you know, which is whatever.
Wayne B.: Which is the title and your company name. LinkedIn doesn't want you to embarrass yourself with nothing. It grabs the information from down below, current company, current title, throws it up there and says, "Please wake up and do something better than this" like you have.
Nick Goellner: That's a good point because we all have 2 jobs. We all are manufacturing leaders and then we all work with MakingChips. I kind of tailored my profile to just MakingChips, because I didn't want it to be confusing, which one is this for?
Wayne B.: Well, you're not the only one with 2 jobs. There's so many of us out there that have multiple jobs/revenues-
Jason Zenger: Yeah, yours says LinkedIn trainer, speaker, and consultant-
Wayne B.: Right. I use my headline for every revenue source I have so that people know that I'm the LinkedIn guy, but these are the ways I make my money so I can help you in these spaces, right?
Wayne B.: You should be sharing, Nick, some length about your regular company too.
Nick Goellner: Yeah, I'm going to make that change today.
Wayne B.: That's okay. You should have 2 job entries, of course, but the bottom line is, when it comes to a good profile, written for your target audience, most are not, most look like the last time you did it was when you got fired or looking for work.
Wayne B.: That's a huge mistake. Then, the sub strategies under that are you got to understand how the search engine works and be able to work with the keywords. Then secondly, you got to make sure that the stories are so interesting to your targeting audience. Show why you're better than everyone else. Have some calls to action, give them your contact information.
Jason Zenger: You're talking about the posts that you make? The stories?
Wayne B.: No, I'm talking about your profile.
Jason Zenger: Oh, the stories. Okay. What are the stories in your profile?
Wayne B.: They're everywhere. Think about this: your main job entry. Whatever your doing mainly, or if you got 2, then it's 2. Right?
Wayne B.: It ought to talk to your audience, how should it talk to your audience, what's your audience's main points?
Jason Zenger: Mine reads, to be quite honest, mine is not good. Mine reads more like a résumé. I need to change that so my audience really understands who I am, what I do, the story that I play a part in in their lives, and how I can help them in their business and their careers.
Jason Zenger: So, let's move on to another topic. What about recommendation? Are recommendations still valid, should you search for them, should you ask for them, do they mean anything?
Wayne B.: Let's make sure we're clear on this definition. Recommendations are endorsements, which are you speaking of?
Jason Zenger: Yes. Why don't you define both?
Wayne B.: Endorsements are simply a little tick mark.
Jason Zenger: Oh, those are the ones where Jason Zenger is good as a Visionary, something like that.
Wayne B.: Right. Those little tick marks and having the right keywords and skills section, which is called "Skills and Endorsements," the search engine loves that section, okay? And it loves people who have lots of endorsements for the keyword that somebody's looking for you for.
Jason Zenger: Yeah, so my #1 endorsement is Strategy and then Manufacturing, Program Management, Product Development, Competitive Analysis.
Jason Zenger: Strategy is probably the #1 by far.
Wayne B.: Strategy's not helping you, Jason.
Jason Zenger: Okay. It needs to be more specific.
Wayne B.: It should be very specific, like the Manufacturing. It should be Podcast host.
Jason Zenger: Okay.
Wayne B.: That's what is should be.
Jason Zenger: Should be like Industrial supplies. Should I be changing those things?
Wayne B.: Yeah, you should either be changing or get rid of them.
Jason Zenger: Great. That's good advice.
Wayne B.: The bottom line is, when it comes to the search engine of LinkedIn, you should have the words in there that people are going to Google your company for or LinkedIn search.
Jason Zenger: On Google or Google within LinkedIn?
Wayne B.: Both. Same words, aren't they the same words, Jim?
Jim Carr: They are and I have noticed it when I do do a native Google search that a lot of LinkedIn profiles come up in the search.
Wayne B.: Exactly. So, isn't that a beautiful thing?
Jim Carr: The Google is searching through LinkedIn in and the fillers are going through the LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: Big time. At one point, when I owned that office furniture dealership, where if you Googled office furniture Milwaukee, I came up higher than our company website.
Jim Carr: That's awesome.
Wayne B.: It's because I knew where to put the words, right?
Jason Zenger: Tell us. What's the value of recommendations? Should I be asking for them? Do they really make a difference? I've got a couple recommendations here; I've got 2 recommendations that
Jim Carr: I think it's just trying to-
Wayne B.: Don't most people on their website have a-
Jason Zenger: Like a testimonial.
Wayne B.: Right. So if they're good there, why aren't they good on your LinkedIn profile?
Jason Zenger: Okay.
Jim Carr: But how relevant are they, Wayne?
Wayne B.: How relevant are the ones on your website?
Jim Carr: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
Wayne B.: You asked for them, you asked for them the same way.
Jim Carr: Some people, I don't even ask for them. Sometimes people automatically write them for me.
Wayne B.: Even better, right? Even better.
Jim Carr: I have to accept that. It won't automatically post.
Wayne B.: So here's the thing on the recommendations: are they make or break? No. Would I charge out and get a whole bunch of them? Probably not. Do I use those recommendations when I sit down and do every proposal for a speaking engagement or corporate event that I do? I scroll through my recommendations and I close every proposal with specific cut and paste from my LinkedIn with people that look like the person I'm trying to do the work for.
Wayne B.: I close my proposal with this: Enclosing I thought I would share with you a couple of recommendations from some of my past manufacturing clients who hired me to help their sales team sell more stuff on LinkedIn.
Wayne B.: Cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste.
Jim Carr: So you just copy and paste it right out of the LinkedIn recommendations into your proposals?
Wayne B.: Yeah. Exactly.
Nick Goellner: Oh, interesting.
Jim Carr: Why not? It's legit.
Wayne B.: It's legit, it's your inventory. You can do what you want with it. Those people don't mind.
Jim Carr: They gave them to you.
Wayne B.: Yeah, they gave it to you. That's your permission, and they love having the exposure, most people.
Jim Carr: Sure. I like that. That's a strategy.
Wayne B.: A wining strategy.
Jason Zenger: So Wayne, what would be your closing thoughts, as far as somebody who's new to LinkedIn, they want to get started, or they really want to amp up their LinkedIn experience. What would be your call to action to the metalworking nation?
Wayne B.: You go to Amazon and buy my book.
Jason Zenger: Okay, that would be a good one.
Wayne B.: You asked, man. I'm going to throw that in.
Jason Zenger: Hey, touché.
Wayne B.: You know what it is? It's go on LinkedIn, and if you're not currently on because you're investigating, use your kid's account. Go look for people in your industry and see how they show themselves up. Right?
Wayne B.: See if you're missing anything. See if you're getting looked and and going, "Well, where they heck is he?" Or, if you got your crappy profile, you'll go, "Well, one is just as crappy as everybody else."
Wayne B.: Okay, then maybe it's not as imperative that you get going, but I'm telling you, most industries, you'll be like, "Oh my gosh. These guys are looking a lot better than me."
Wayne B.: I would start there. I'd start with what do your competitors have up, how do they look on their company page, their personal profile, how do theirs sales folks look?
Jason Zenger: So do a little competitive analysis.
Wayne B.: And you can do all that without them knowing you were there because you can change your setting to "I'm looking at you, but you don't know I'm here."
Jason Zenger: That's good advice. So, metalworking nation, your first call to action is do some competitive analysis on LinkedIn. If you're new to LinkedIn, just go out there and see what your competition is doing, because they could be engaging in LinkedIn bing time.
Jason Zenger: They could be getting 7 out of 10 of their new leads and you're missing out. I know that there's a lot in the manufacturing industry that are really engaged in LinkedIn, and they're doing it because, like Jim said, it's reaping rewards for them.
Jason Zenger: Wayne, thank you for being on the show. We're going to have you stick around and we're going to be talking about some advance techniques. Jim's going to lead that conversation.
Jim Carr: I've got tons of questions, lots. Way more than another podcast episode, but I'll try to [shrunk ate 00:44:51] it down and get the high notes.
Jim Carr: You are very successful at LinkedIn, Jim, and I can't wait to hear about all the advanced techniques on LinkedIn. I'm going to amp up my profile.
Jim Carr: Metalworking nation, go to makingchips.com/linkedin and you can get more resources in order to connect with Wayne. You can get a link to his book, and you can see what we have to offer from MakingChips on our LinkedIn profile.
Jim Carr: Please, if you have gotten value from MakingChips, please leave a review on iTunes and let us know what we're doing well, what you'd like to hear more of, and give us a 5 star review because,-
Jason Zenger: If you're not MakingChips-
Jim Carr: You're not making money. Bam.
Jason Zenger: Bam.
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Nick Goellner: Just so you guys know, I both endorsed you for vocabulary.
Jason Zenger: Thank you.
Nick Goellner: Forget about the plethora of great works.
Jim Carr: And I don't have an MBA like Jason does.
Jason Zenger: That's true, you come from the school of hard knocks, right?
Jim Carr: You betcha, man.